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and now a message from the inside of

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Richard Saunders walk-in refrigerator

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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show number 22 for the twentieth of

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March Friday the twentieth of March 2009

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a special in between sort of show today

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we have an interview with alum shahe

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from the United Kingdom he's a science

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communicator or is he you'll find out

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soon a science teacher who has released

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a video project on the web all about the

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importance of teaching science he is

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going to be talking to our reporter

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Kylie Sturgis then I'll be having a chat

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with dr. Karen stalls no from Australian

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skeptics and one of our reporters about

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her role is the new editor of the

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skeptic magazine followed by a catch up

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with dr. rachey where she's going to be

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commenting on some of the interesting

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developments she's had with the life

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wave from last week so I'll leave you to

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enjoy the show while I try to get out of

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you've just seen me walk across the red

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hot coals at temperature of over 500

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degrees Celsius I could tell you but I'm

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an expert in an ancient form of

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meditation that lets me block out pain

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at will I could then tell you that you

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could lead a happier life if you follow

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my teachings for a small fee of course

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or i could tell you the truth that

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walking on hot coals doesn't require any

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kind of magical powers it's just the

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case that the coals are a poor conductor

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of heat and i walked so quickly that

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there's hardly any time for heat

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transfer to take place separating truth

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from fraudulent mumbo-jumbo is just one

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reason why science is important I'm

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Carly Sturgis and you have just heard

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part of the introduction to the

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documentary why is science important a

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film and blog project by a longshot ha

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funded by the Wellcome Trust along is a

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physics teacher at an inner-city

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comprehensive school where science as in

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all UK schools is compulsory for

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students up to the age of 16 he says

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that he wears his passion for science on

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his sleeve but doesn't think that's

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enough to convince all of these students

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that science is important nor does he

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think like some in his profession that

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the importance of science is implicit in

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the courses taught or that it will

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somehow seep into students minds after a

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certain number of hours at school this

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little on to interview nearly 70

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scientists philosophers and science

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consultants worldwide in order to answer

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the question which his students posed in

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the documentary what's the point of

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science

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Alam has previously worked as a

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development producer on several TV

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programs and films including patterns in

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nature lords of the Ring about the Large

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Hadron Collider he has been recognized

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with a fellowship from the National

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Endowment for science technology and the

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arts and you can visit the official site

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for why is science important at the

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website ww-why science co uk firstly

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thank you along for doing this interview

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during a very busy school year how did

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the documentary why a science important

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come to be I guess the project really

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started in January 2008 when I returned

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to teaching after spending about seven

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years working as a TV producer and upon

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returning to the classroom I started to

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feel that my students didn't really know

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why they had to do science that there

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was nothing about the course or about

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what they were supposed to learn that

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really conveyed to them why science is

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absolutely important and why they should

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learn it and I discuss this with other

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teachers and so forth and was kind of a

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bit depressed to find that the standard

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answer was something along the lines of

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Sciences everywhere and we live in a

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technological world and therefore you

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need to know about science and

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personally I don't think those are good

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answers I I think as I say in the film i

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think the the importance of studying

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science is that it gives you thinking

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skills it gives you a way of looking at

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the world that is incredibly rich and

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rewarding um that can help you make

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better decisions in life and have the

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intellectual tools to deal with life

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better I didn't feel that this is the

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message that was getting through to my

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students and I certainly didn't feel

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that many of my colleagues in the

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profession were necessarily getting

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these other ideas about why science is

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important across to their students and I

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I just wanted to do something that would

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would rectify that and that may have

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been a grand ambition it may have been

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pretentious but at least the project is

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out there now so hopefully

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if some student ever gets set an essay

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by their teacher why it's important

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they'll be able to google it and come

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across my site and get some really

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decent answers well I think will be

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highly valued by great many people not

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just students one great element of Y

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science important are the numbers of

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contributors to the project including

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doctors feel played Simon Singh Susan

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Blackmore there's nearly 70 people who

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took part in it overall isn't that there

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are lots of participants there are lots

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of people who contributed to the project

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and I was really quite taken aback by

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the positive response from from the

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science community and all the other

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people who contributed and it's been

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quite overwhelming and I think that's

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evidence that this is a question that

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resonated with people and that this is a

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project that people felt needed to be

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done at the start of the documentary you

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even take it to trainee teachers and

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reflect upon how even in the profession

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of teaching we need to investigate our

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own reasons for promoting science

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literacy is that true I'm terribly

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conscious that you know there might be

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some people out there who say who is

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this guy trying to tell other teachers

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what they should be doing but I'm hoping

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they won't think that and they'll think

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that this is a tremendous be useful

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resource that they can point their

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students to or that you know might help

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them clarify their own ideas about why

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science is important whether

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interviewees who particularly surprised

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your produced answers that you really

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liked well one of the first answers I

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got was from mark made of Nick who's an

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old friend of mine and his answer was

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that a science is your mum besides pop

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culture I think that's one going to say

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and so I just don't feel like it's more

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important than literature and I don't

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think it's more important than TV or

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film but I think it's as important and

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so and it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't

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you know at the moment is

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underappreciated in that sense and I

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guess I feel like it's part of who we

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are it's part of being human is science

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it's not different from being human it

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is what makes you human you know when

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our ancestors first we'll judging around

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in the mud on a day like today which is

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really horrible I mean today is when you

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realize science important if if we can

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have science we would all be miserable

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too

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is cold it's wet it's rainy the fact

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that we've got heating buildings cars to

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drive around in buses try that is

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science that's it you know it's a part

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of sight apart the importance of start

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is the fact that you know we can't

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survive in most parts of the world

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without science that's given us the

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ability to survive and actually to think

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high things to appreciate poetry to

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appreciate literature to fall in love to

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actually live together for someone for

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30 40 50 years that's besides as let us

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do that before this you had a life

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expectancy of 30 years you know it was

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life was brutal and probably quite

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sublime in that sense if you enjoy

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sitting on the sofa watching the telly

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it's because that science has allowed

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that to happen and so it's a bit like

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ignoring science and feeling Sciences

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kind of irrelevant to use a bit like

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dissing your mum you know it's just like

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it it's where you've come from you've

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got you haven't got to appreciate it but

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it is a bit like dissing your mum and

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it's a bit rude isn't it to diss your

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mum you shouldn't do that and people

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diss science in the same way and they

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really shouldn't do that it's your mom

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it was an intriguing answer and one that

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got the project off to a really good

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start I felt one of my other favorites

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is a cartoon strip by a chap called

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Victor poor which you might need to

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think about for a little bit but I think

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it's a excellent response to the

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question now my personal favorite I

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think I'm a little bit torn between

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answers by Phil cook and Michael

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DePodesta they're both former teachers

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of mine so I am slightly biased but my

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cause assertion that the science is

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simply humanity's greatest achievement

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is something that I think I agree with

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and and that's why I really like that on

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sir because he just went out there and

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said it and I suspect many of the other

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respondents wish they had as well

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there's a kind of sense that perhaps we

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should it makes us sound arrogant to say

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such a thing but is it arrogant if it's

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the truth amongst your qualifications

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you'll also a science writer and you

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produce several films details of which

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can be found on the side WWF report com

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and you've said in a previous interview

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that science communication has to be

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much more than celebrating the wonder of

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science what led you to that conclusion

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okay first I'd like to make clear that

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the term science communication is a

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horrible one and it sounds awful and my

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friends laugh at me when when I tell

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them that's why i do but i think it's an

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increasingly important activity and I'll

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explain why in a minute when I first

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started working in this field science

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communication was a phrase that was

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associated with people who went round to

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schools and demonstrated things with

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liquid nitrogen made explosions and

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things now don't get me wrong I think

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there's a place for people like that

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they can genuinely help to enthuse

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children about science for example but I

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have to be honest art I don't think they

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do much more than that I don't think

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people who do these things have a

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lasting effect and I believe there's

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research which confirms my opinion now

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what I think science communication has

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to be about in in today's NH is is is

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about getting people to understand the

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kind of social and political

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implications of science know what do I

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mean by that well you know we live in an

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age where everybody is aware that

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climate change is happening some people

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may want to be in denial about it but I

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think the majority of people understand

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and appreciate that we have this big

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problem that we're going to have to deal

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with and we're only going to be able to

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deal with it through using science now

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00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:23,000
the public need to be informed of

275
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science in order to be able to make the

276
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kind of decisions that we may need to

277
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make in the future and then this is a

278
00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:31,199
point that came up over and over again

279
00:11:34,850 --> 00:11:32,910
in the survey and and it's covered well

280
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:34,860
in the film and it's not just global

281
00:11:41,449 --> 00:11:37,050
warming it's things like you know how do

282
00:11:44,259 --> 00:11:41,459
we make best use of our tax money for

283
00:11:47,569 --> 00:11:44,269
medicine you know where should we be

284
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:47,579
prioritizing other taxpayers monies in

285
00:11:52,850 --> 00:11:50,399
terms of scientific research these kind

286
00:11:55,819 --> 00:11:52,860
of decisions which every society on the

287
00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:55,829
planet needs to be making are based on

288
00:12:01,369 --> 00:11:58,290
science and unless we are science

289
00:12:04,719 --> 00:12:01,379
communicators do our best to make sure

290
00:12:08,029 --> 00:12:04,729
people are well informed we end up with

291
00:12:09,499 --> 00:12:08,039
stupid situations like for example what

292
00:12:11,589 --> 00:12:09,509
we have in the UK at the moment where

293
00:12:14,779 --> 00:12:11,599
people are rejecting the MMR vaccine

294
00:12:16,969 --> 00:12:14,789
largely through ignorance and that's why

295
00:12:18,889 --> 00:12:16,979
I think engaging people in this

296
00:12:21,019 --> 00:12:18,899
political and cultural issues around

297
00:12:23,329 --> 00:12:21,029
Sciences is far more important than

298
00:12:25,399 --> 00:12:23,339
saying oh look if you're a scientist you

299
00:12:26,719 --> 00:12:25,409
can make stuff blow up I think that

300
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:26,729
there's enough people doing that and I

301
00:12:30,379 --> 00:12:28,079
think we need some more grown-up science

302
00:12:32,149 --> 00:12:30,389
communicators and again I'm sure that

303
00:12:34,339 --> 00:12:32,159
makes me sound arrogant but there you go

304
00:12:36,259 --> 00:12:34,349
you've got several films which can be

305
00:12:38,479 --> 00:12:36,269
found online when I was checking out

306
00:12:40,729 --> 00:12:38,489
wires science important on youtube I

307
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,739
discovered several smaller documentaries

308
00:12:44,839 --> 00:12:42,720
one was called science is better than

309
00:12:46,189 --> 00:12:44,849
magic have you investigated the

310
00:12:47,869 --> 00:12:46,199
influence of magic tricks in the

311
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:47,879
classroom and what do you think they

312
00:12:52,489 --> 00:12:50,399
contribute to learning as I say in my

313
00:12:56,059 --> 00:12:52,499
video I'm probably not the only science

314
00:12:57,979 --> 00:12:56,069
geek who likes magic in fact I always

315
00:13:00,019 --> 00:12:57,989
seem to be meeting scientists who are

316
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:00,029
brilliant at card tricks or coin tricks

317
00:13:05,029 --> 00:13:02,639
and I think there's a reason for that

318
00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:05,039
and I think the reason is we like to

319
00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:08,100
know how things work and and when you

320
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:10,529
see a really brilliant magic trick what

321
00:13:14,449 --> 00:13:12,959
I do when I see a really brilliant magic

322
00:13:16,429 --> 00:13:14,459
trick what I do is try to work out how

323
00:13:18,409 --> 00:13:16,439
it works and I get a certain degree of

324
00:13:20,419 --> 00:13:18,419
satisfaction from knowing you know I

325
00:13:22,819 --> 00:13:20,429
think I know enough about magic that I

326
00:13:25,759 --> 00:13:22,829
can usually tell how a particular

327
00:13:28,939 --> 00:13:25,769
illusion is performed and that's kind of

328
00:13:31,069 --> 00:13:28,949
satisfying but only up to a point and

329
00:13:35,059 --> 00:13:31,079
that that's the point that I like to

330
00:13:38,239 --> 00:13:35,069
make to my students so i often use magic

331
00:13:41,329 --> 00:13:38,249
in the classroom to introduce the idea

332
00:13:43,399 --> 00:13:41,339
to my students that science is about

333
00:13:47,449 --> 00:13:43,409
knowing how things work knowing how

334
00:13:48,889 --> 00:13:47,459
really amazing things work and that with

335
00:13:51,469 --> 00:13:48,899
that knowledge you can go and do other

336
00:13:53,479 --> 00:13:51,479
amazing things so there's this parallel

337
00:13:55,549 --> 00:13:53,489
with science but with magic rather so

338
00:13:56,989 --> 00:13:55,559
there's this parallel with magic in

339
00:14:00,759 --> 00:13:56,999
science but science is kind of

340
00:14:03,710 --> 00:14:00,769
infinitely richer which may offend some

341
00:14:04,999 --> 00:14:03,720
magicians but I seem to be offending

342
00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:05,009
people left right and center with my

343
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:07,409
view so there you go so yes science is

344
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:09,569
better than magic because it's an

345
00:14:14,179 --> 00:14:12,569
infinitely richer a field of activity

346
00:14:15,199 --> 00:14:14,189
the use of magic tricks and the

347
00:14:19,389 --> 00:14:15,209
classroom is a really

348
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:19,399
good way of engaging students initially

349
00:14:24,859 --> 00:14:22,079
but what I use it for is mainly to make

350
00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:24,869
the point that magic compared to science

351
00:14:29,179 --> 00:14:27,350
is really simple and uninteresting

352
00:14:30,619 --> 00:14:29,189
finally what are your plans for your

353
00:14:32,419 --> 00:14:30,629
next project I know you're in the middle

354
00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:32,429
of a very busy school term at the moment

355
00:14:38,989 --> 00:14:34,670
so will that be your focus for a while

356
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:38,999
next projects okay so I I the film was

357
00:14:44,329 --> 00:14:41,850
only launched online literally or kind

358
00:14:45,739 --> 00:14:44,339
of a week and a half ago and frankly I'm

359
00:14:48,439 --> 00:14:45,749
absolutely exhausted it was an

360
00:14:50,329 --> 00:14:48,449
exhausting process making the film I was

361
00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:50,339
regularly working 18 hours a day six

362
00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:52,740
days a week and during the whole

363
00:14:56,509 --> 00:14:54,420
production of the film I was teaching

364
00:14:58,519 --> 00:14:56,519
three days a week as well it's one of

365
00:15:00,439 --> 00:14:58,529
the hardest things I've ever done and I

366
00:15:01,879 --> 00:15:00,449
just want to break now unfortunately

367
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:01,889
I've still got two more weeks of school

368
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:04,350
left until the Easter break but i'm

369
00:15:09,379 --> 00:15:07,410
planning to veg out for two weeks in all

370
00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:09,389
honesty i have got a couple of ideas up

371
00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:11,160
my sleeves but I'm not really ready to

372
00:15:15,439 --> 00:15:13,350
share that with the world yet but I'll

373
00:15:17,749 --> 00:15:15,449
let you know as soon as I am thank you

374
00:15:20,329 --> 00:15:17,759
very much along you can find his film

375
00:15:22,309 --> 00:15:20,339
why is science important by looking on

376
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,319
YouTube and checking out the full blog

377
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:24,480
project and all the contributors on the

378
00:15:44,430 --> 00:15:42,060
this far you're listening too far by

379
00:15:48,620 --> 00:15:44,440
George Arab you can find out more about

380
00:15:53,190 --> 00:15:48,630
George her ad by visiting his website at

381
00:15:54,990 --> 00:15:53,200
www.allaboutdoors.com where you can even

382
00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:55,000
find the lyrics to the song try singing

383
00:16:00,570 --> 00:15:57,310
along with it of course he's singing

384
00:16:04,740 --> 00:16:00,580
about the 365 days of astronomy podcast

385
00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:04,750
one podcast every day for 2009 and you

386
00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:08,380
can find that at 365 days of astronomy

387
00:16:21,250 --> 00:16:12,070
onward or go check it out there'll be a

388
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:23,769
there by Carly today it's

389
00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:27,970
crazy just all stars and stars opposite

390
00:16:32,499 --> 00:16:30,980
George her ab let me tell you something

391
00:16:35,259 --> 00:16:32,509
about Georgia wrap the first time I met

392
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:35,269
him was the amazing meeting six in Las

393
00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:38,350
Vegas I was on a panel with james randi

394
00:16:45,790 --> 00:16:42,529
Daniel Loxton Adam Savage Banacek been

395
00:16:49,329 --> 00:16:45,800
Radford dr. Steve novella and George

396
00:16:51,610 --> 00:16:49,339
Abbott after the panel he came up and

397
00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:51,620
thanked me for being part of the panel

398
00:16:56,139 --> 00:16:53,529
with him which I thought was rather nice

399
00:17:02,049 --> 00:16:56,149
next time I remember meeting George was

400
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:02,059
a dragon con last year and I must be one

401
00:17:05,289 --> 00:17:03,680
of the only people who has ever fallen

402
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:05,299
asleep during her George or a

403
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:09,650
performance but I must say it was jet

404
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:11,600
lag George it really was i thought your

405
00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:14,000
performance was funny was great it was

406
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:16,839
full of energy and i nodded off to sleep

407
00:17:22,299 --> 00:17:20,510
much to my embarrassment I remember that

408
00:17:25,870 --> 00:17:22,309
party we went to George in that hotel

409
00:17:27,850 --> 00:17:25,880
room where I was bending spoons bending

410
00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:27,860
spoons for lots of people including the

411
00:17:34,289 --> 00:17:30,590
lovely astronomer the girl we all love

412
00:17:37,060 --> 00:17:34,299
Pamela gay and as I bent a spoon for her

413
00:17:40,779 --> 00:17:37,070
eyring heard later you were sitting

414
00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:40,789
behind me giving commentary about what I

415
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:52,800
well I'm here with dr. Karen stalls no

416
00:17:56,610 --> 00:17:54,400
reporter for the skeptic zone and more

417
00:17:59,100 --> 00:17:56,620
importantly maybe editor of the skeptic

418
00:18:00,780 --> 00:17:59,110
magazine Carrie maybe maybe editor

419
00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:00,790
people have been raving about the

420
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:02,230
skeptic magazine can you tell us a

421
00:18:05,060 --> 00:18:03,610
little bit more about it we've been

422
00:18:07,470 --> 00:18:05,070
receiving so much positive feedback

423
00:18:09,870 --> 00:18:07,480
about the magazine then you look at the

424
00:18:11,580 --> 00:18:09,880
magazine then you content as well so I

425
00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:11,590
just keep sending your feedback in tell

426
00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:14,140
me what you want and I might listen you

427
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:16,180
might you might I might I'm the editor

428
00:18:22,020 --> 00:18:19,990
up at the final scene ww skeptics calm

429
00:18:24,180 --> 00:18:22,030
daddy look the skeptic magazine you can

430
00:18:26,670 --> 00:18:24,190
read articles by your favorite skeptic

431
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:26,680
zone reporters like Karen herself or dr.

432
00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:31,090
Richie are even Haley Sturgis and I

433
00:18:34,650 --> 00:18:32,860
think I'm hopefully Iran so give will be

434
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:34,660
making contributions but better I'm on

435
00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:38,290
his case yeah so and and lots of other

436
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:40,030
people who involved in the zone also

437
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:42,310
helped make the skeptic magazine it's a

438
00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:43,840
great magazine one of the best skeptical

439
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,390
magazines in the world ww skeptics

440
00:18:50,190 --> 00:18:49,120
comdata you subscribe today and I tell

441
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:50,200
you what you people listening in the

442
00:18:54,540 --> 00:18:52,690
United States the Australian dollar has

443
00:18:56,370 --> 00:18:54,550
tanked it's dived it's doing the

444
00:18:58,290 --> 00:18:56,380
Australian crawl it's gone to the bottom

445
00:19:01,160 --> 00:18:58,300
of the pool so if you buy something from

446
00:19:02,970 --> 00:19:01,170
Australia at the moment it's dirt cheap

447
00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:02,980
it's getting better and better all the

448
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:07,150
time well this in-between sort of

449
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:09,610
special show is not normally the show we

450
00:19:15,090 --> 00:19:11,890
have dr. Rachel reports but I'd like to

451
00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:15,100
have a little dr. rachy update hi dr. AG

452
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:18,040
pirate suit last week's episode was life

453
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:20,770
wave patches yeah actually can um can

454
00:19:26,010 --> 00:19:23,200
you not disturb me i'm reading living

455
00:19:29,010 --> 00:19:26,020
now the health and well-being free

456
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:29,020
holistic magazine oh sorry this is a

457
00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:30,250
very interesting stuff in here actually

458
00:19:35,010 --> 00:19:32,260
in fact sorry you just mentioned a life

459
00:19:38,130 --> 00:19:35,020
way yes yeah you were just having a look

460
00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:38,140
at Nova Nova magazine folks that's your

461
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:40,360
favorite oh it is it's a free magazine

462
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:41,890
here in Sydney and most of Australia

463
00:19:46,590 --> 00:19:43,600
it's a quite a big publication

464
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:46,600
physically big it's free as I've just

465
00:19:52,170 --> 00:19:48,130
said and

466
00:19:54,690 --> 00:19:52,180
um it's chock-a-block full of Wu's yeah

467
00:19:57,630 --> 00:19:54,700
it's Australia's realistic journalism

468
00:19:58,860 --> 00:19:57,640
touted as it says here that it's one

469
00:20:01,290 --> 00:19:58,870
hundred and thirty-eight thousand copies

470
00:20:02,250 --> 00:20:01,300
are distributed monthly free when I

471
00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:02,260
wouldn't doubt it it's full of

472
00:20:05,550 --> 00:20:03,550
advertising anyway what I was gonna say

473
00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:05,560
is since you mentioned advertising I

474
00:20:10,890 --> 00:20:07,390
came across an ad in her life wave

475
00:20:12,990 --> 00:20:10,900
patches we are there is one huge number

476
00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:13,000
nine page nine yet new breakthrough

477
00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:14,350
patch technology that will revolutionize

478
00:20:20,430 --> 00:20:17,550
the wellness industry isn't that amazing

479
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:20,440
so you wanted to ask me about a no

480
00:20:26,550 --> 00:20:24,090
reaction you have received from not only

481
00:20:31,140 --> 00:20:26,560
doing your doctor each and life wavered

482
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,150
the blogger yes I had a very interesting

483
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:34,240
exchange with some believers on my blog

484
00:20:41,310 --> 00:20:38,170
in fact this week and it was it was very

485
00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:41,320
interesting because the first couple of

486
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:43,030
posts i got from this person who turned

487
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:44,530
out to be what I suspect is actually a

488
00:20:50,330 --> 00:20:47,050
distributor of these patches were very

489
00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:50,340
polite and very formal so dear Rachel no

490
00:20:54,930 --> 00:20:53,470
I've I've used these patches for five

491
00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:54,940
months now and I don't whilst I don't

492
00:20:57,950 --> 00:20:55,900
know anything about the glutathione

493
00:21:01,560 --> 00:20:57,960
patch specifically which was the one I

494
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:01,570
described as being used for autism this

495
00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:03,250
person said that they had used the ice

496
00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:05,590
wave pain ones and that they've had a

497
00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:08,580
lot of success with them and you know I

498
00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:10,540
shouldn't try them because they're

499
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:11,950
really are great and people shouldn't

500
00:21:14,550 --> 00:21:13,090
worry about the fact that it's Molly

501
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:14,560
level marketing just use them and have a

502
00:21:19,230 --> 00:21:16,570
good life so it was very positive it was

503
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:19,240
a nice placed as I wrote back to this

504
00:21:24,030 --> 00:21:22,210
person and in fact can I just refer to

505
00:21:25,860 --> 00:21:24,040
my notes because I have yes oh you've

506
00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:25,870
got your notes here with you we're

507
00:21:29,940 --> 00:21:27,430
actually here at our favorite Club we

508
00:21:32,010 --> 00:21:29,950
normally do the think tank from we're

509
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:32,020
here tonight it's a tuesday night were

510
00:21:37,650 --> 00:21:34,810
here for trivia and last week we won so

511
00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:37,660
it worked quite optimistic about we had

512
00:21:42,060 --> 00:21:39,340
de ver happy singer with us oh you know

513
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:42,070
he claims that he won it for us doesn't

514
00:21:49,370 --> 00:21:48,170
yeah so this guy said that he in his

515
00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:49,380
opinion the patches do as they

516
00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:51,900
advertised and when I wrote back to him

517
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:53,940
and suggested that that could be a

518
00:21:58,370 --> 00:21:55,770
possible placebo effect because he was

519
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,380
talking about the pain ones having an

520
00:22:02,090 --> 00:22:00,720
effect and you know that's not and I'm

521
00:22:03,410 --> 00:22:02,100
falling off and growing back you know

522
00:22:06,140 --> 00:22:03,420
you're stippling on your head will feel

523
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:06,150
bit better it's possibly a placebo and

524
00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:08,970
he responded with saying that what does

525
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:11,100
it matter if it's placebo I'm happy to

526
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:12,450
pay it it makes me feel better so that's

527
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:13,890
fine and I said well that's all good and

528
00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:16,470
well but you know I'm as long as you've

529
00:22:19,580 --> 00:22:17,940
had a good experience that's fine but

530
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,590
when it comes down to families and

531
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:22,080
parents and kids with autism I think

532
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:24,840
it's misleading of life wave to infer

533
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:26,880
that they can be helpful in yeah in

534
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,410
autism which is a disease like a few no

535
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:33,360
unattached lemme it's not going to go

536
00:22:37,310 --> 00:22:35,430
away by itself like a nation might be a

537
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:37,320
better description maybe sorry it's a

538
00:22:40,670 --> 00:22:38,970
year yeah you're right but we know what

539
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:40,680
you mean yeah it's something that's not

540
00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:41,760
going to get better you through the

541
00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:44,040
course of the condition you know like a

542
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,070
headache anyway so this time he wrote

543
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:49,200
back he still said hi Rachel but he

544
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:51,570
spins so do you believe in acupuncture

545
00:22:55,970 --> 00:22:53,250
and do you think all alternative

546
00:22:57,380 --> 00:22:55,980
therapies are bogus and so I had to

547
00:22:58,850 --> 00:22:57,390
really be careful to keep my head and

548
00:23:00,140 --> 00:22:58,860
just to be too very thoroughly address

549
00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:00,150
each one of his questions without

550
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:02,760
calling him an idiot but um oh here's

551
00:23:11,060 --> 00:23:06,390
your steak oh yeah thank you oh that

552
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:11,070
looks good kindle mistakes folks oh it's

553
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:12,210
just tend to a steak night and they were

554
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:14,250
quite good I might get one no no you got

555
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,970
one last time um anyway so I wish I wish

556
00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:20,400
this had them this microphone cadet

557
00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:23,340
could pick up smell that smells behind

558
00:23:29,710 --> 00:23:26,230
you sorry

559
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:29,720
so then when I started to talk a little

560
00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:31,130
bit about the science behind the

561
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:32,780
glutathione patch he then asked me if

562
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:34,400
I'd like to participate in a study and

563
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:35,810
perhaps mr. Schmidt would like to help

564
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:38,000
me and we could do a test and see if

565
00:23:45,130 --> 00:23:39,760
they elevate your blood glue the file

566
00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:45,140
sent I politely informed him that you

567
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:47,180
can't just whip up a clinical study in a

568
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:49,370
lab in an afternoon and secondly that

569
00:23:53,050 --> 00:23:51,530
mr. Schmidt apparently under 17 million

570
00:23:55,030 --> 00:23:53,060
dollars in his first year of selling

571
00:23:59,850 --> 00:23:55,040
these magic patches so he could probably

572
00:24:02,830 --> 00:23:59,860
afford to do his own clinical trial hmm

573
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:02,840
yeah and he didn't like that and he then

574
00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:05,360
started to go with a big pharma

575
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:07,700
conspiracy angling and say well you're

576
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:09,530
saying you want peer-reviewed science or

577
00:24:13,210 --> 00:24:11,930
you're just are you too good for this

578
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:13,220
you know you don't call him one of your

579
00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:14,810
peers just because he's not a doctrine

580
00:24:18,730 --> 00:24:17,120
and what peer-reviewed stuff do you read

581
00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:18,740
that's not big farmer and it must be

582
00:24:22,660 --> 00:24:20,470
rough you know this whole stuff yeah

583
00:24:26,260 --> 00:24:22,670
anyway and then just just integrated

584
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:26,270
into him basically um he copied and

585
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:28,610
pasted just about all of my blog and

586
00:24:34,210 --> 00:24:31,610
then addressed every point himself

587
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:34,220
saying well you said this in fact one of

588
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:35,330
the things I mean one of the logical

589
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:37,910
fallacies he's used here is I said that

590
00:24:41,890 --> 00:24:40,400
um it's devious and deceitful of life

591
00:24:43,780 --> 00:24:41,900
way to say that these things can cure

592
00:24:46,030 --> 00:24:43,790
autism and he says will because I said

593
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:46,040
there's no known cure and he said well

594
00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:48,080
no cure that you know of but it's

595
00:24:51,550 --> 00:24:49,910
science social they know everything so

596
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:51,560
he's saying therefore the science

597
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:52,760
doesn't know them then therefore

598
00:24:58,299 --> 00:24:55,570
lifewave cure yeah autism you know

599
00:24:59,950 --> 00:24:58,309
so at this point I got a little bit fed

600
00:25:02,169 --> 00:24:59,960
up and fortunately I had some good

601
00:25:07,329 --> 00:25:02,179
friends in the blogosphere Richard mmm

602
00:25:09,219 --> 00:25:07,339
you do and they jumped in to help me so

603
00:25:12,099 --> 00:25:09,229
big shoutouts to Sean the blogger not

604
00:25:13,570 --> 00:25:12,109
who's a good he's a great guy he's

605
00:25:15,369 --> 00:25:13,580
always commenting on my blogs and a big

606
00:25:17,379 --> 00:25:15,379
shout-out to Joel birch thanks Joel for

607
00:25:21,759 --> 00:25:17,389
helping me out and you as well yep you

608
00:25:23,979 --> 00:25:21,769
jumped on your booty so in the end most

609
00:25:25,539 --> 00:25:23,989
of my friends got on and basically told

610
00:25:27,789 --> 00:25:25,549
this guy if you wanted to sell us know

611
00:25:29,769 --> 00:25:27,799
if he were trying to spout your snake

612
00:25:31,450 --> 00:25:29,779
oil business here then forget it because

613
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:31,460
it's the place of science and reason and

614
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,769
you need facts and evidence we don't

615
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:36,080
accept you saying that you know I used

616
00:25:42,609 --> 00:25:39,440
it worked yes yes oh and I also wanted

617
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:42,619
to particularly point out one line which

618
00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:46,159
was left by um who was this Oh by Matt

619
00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:49,609
Matt is from I like patello blogspot I'm

620
00:25:53,289 --> 00:25:52,190
Matt he's a Melbourne and he said that

621
00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:53,299
he was amazed by the number of

622
00:25:57,249 --> 00:25:55,190
paragraphs that the true believers will

623
00:25:59,979 --> 00:25:57,259
happily spout all the while avoiding the

624
00:26:02,289 --> 00:25:59,989
simple expedient of supplying any actual

625
00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:02,299
evidence and this I think is spot-on

626
00:26:08,259 --> 00:26:04,609
Matt a link to a peer-reviewed study

627
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:08,269
takes up but a single line people thank

628
00:26:19,740 --> 00:26:16,830
hi I'm Alice at eight host of the new by

629
00:26:21,660 --> 00:26:19,750
weekly podcast the pseudo-scientists the

630
00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:21,670
official podcast of the young Australian

631
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:24,220
skeptics John Eliot birch daily breeders

632
00:26:29,130 --> 00:26:26,890
Jason ball Jack Scanlon hey rush and

633
00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:29,140
myself to hear what our generation have

634
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:31,480
to say about quackery science and the

635
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:33,910
issues that concern us subscribe to our

636
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:50,600
well thanks for listening to the skeptic

637
00:26:55,670 --> 00:26:53,490
zone show number 22 and try as I might I

638
00:26:57,530 --> 00:26:55,680
just can't get out of this fridge George

639
00:27:00,500 --> 00:26:57,540
I don't know what I'm going to do

640
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:00,510
nevermind I'm sure your socks will keep

641
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:03,240
me warm join us next week for a skeptic

642
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:06,480
zone number 23 with dr. Rachel reports

643
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:08,730
the roundup with my koala hand grain of

644
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:10,770
salt with her answer give and you have a

645
00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:13,140
popular think tank where we get to drink

646
00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:16,020
lots of cheap champagne until next week

647
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:23,150
you've been listening to the skeptic

648
00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:28,200
zone visit our website at WWF digs on TV

649
00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:31,230
for comments contacts and extra video

650
00:27:36,499 --> 00:27:33,550
reports

651
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:36,509
us kids